My Friends Note that started it All....
I've been pondering God's love recently.Now, granted, I'm studying Bible at Oklahoma Christian University, so this isn't rare at all for me.
For years, I've paralleled God's love to that between two people in love with each other.
The idea goes something like this: when two people fall in love; when they first start dating, they'll do crazy, silly, sometimes stupid things just to prove it. I've watched the most educated men and women make complete fools out of themselves for the sake of love. I can speak from experience as a male: we buy flowers, cards, dish out compliments like they're going out of style, the whole nine yards. When two people are falling for each other, they'll do whatever it takes to make the other person happy.No one told them to do it, they just DO it. They act in ridiculous ways simply to please someone else.
Our relationship with God is very much the same: when you find yourself in a deep, loving relationship with God; the very same relationship that God has with all his children, you find yourself doing crazy things just to please God. You start to turn your life around and everything falls into place. No one told you to stop acting like a tool and give yourself to Him, you just DO it.
In the same way, this is the very reason that people were not made just automatically loving God.
COULD God have forced us to love him? I believe that God is all-powerful, all-knowing and all-caring. He could have very easily made us God-loving robots if he wanted to, but forced love is hardly love at all. If you don't know any better, then how can it be love. Love is a constant decision, not some passing emotion.
As I was pondering this idea, a new thought came to me: what about the people that don't know God?
I picture a person, aching for someone far away. They want more than anything to be with their significant other, but they can't. It's impossible. They long for this person, they ache for them, their body is physically wracked with pain because they love someone they can't have.
I hate quoting cliche Bible verses, but here it's the most appropriate verse. God loved his creation so much that he killed a part of himself to give us the chance to love him back. And as wonderful and caring and compassionate as he is, I think there must be some eternal, infinite painful longing that God has for his wayward sons and daughters. It is because He wants his lost sheep to come home more than anything else in the world that all creation throws the universe's biggest party for each person that returns to God's side. To call Him father is the greatest joy a person could experience. To be called father is the greatest joy a creator could ever know.
The Response- This is a very thoughtful and moving reflection. Although, I would modify one thing. In my opinion, God didn't "kill a part of himself" for us. God allowed us to "kill a part of himself" as a demonstration both of our depravity and God's love. Jesus' death wasn't a suicide, it was a sacrifice. God didn't demand Jesus' death, we did. Jesus' wasn't the victim of a bloodthirsty, but benevolent God that demanded a sacrifice for sin. He was the victim of an ungrateful and bloodthirsty creation. We were the agents of destruction and madness. Jesus was the agent of reconciliation. I believe that distinction is extremely important, especially as we proclaim this story to others.
My response to the response- God made the marines. Wait thats a t-shirt, not the bible. However, I am pretty sure that " God GAVE His only son", and that humanity did not demand a sacrifice of a perfect person for humanity's sin. Also I've notticed while reading the old testament that blood seems to be really important, also Romans seems to indicate blood was pretty important to God. I'm a believer in ( kinda) in free will, but I belive the tent ( if I may get all analogous ) of salvation stands on the tension between free will and Gods grace ( i.e. God counting us righteous just because). It was God's plan and could not have occured had he not spent a good deal ( all) of history planning Jesus's death. Man was mostly a bystander
@my friend- I like the marriage metaphor just a hair better,but your analogy is wonderful for your audiance ( Youth ministry major and all that). I have come to think that it is Gods love that drives us, not our love of God ( splitting hairs I know, pistis of Christos)the clever repartee to my response- So, you've taken a theology course. Take more.
My clever repartee- Romans 3:19-26
http://www.blueletterbiblepropitiate
http://dictionary.referenc
1 John 4:10
http://www.blueletterbible
Colosians 2: 13-14
http://www.blueletterbible
How the Clever Reparteer respons- I wish we could sit down and discuss this over a cup of coffee. We could express ourselves so much more effectively that way. It's obvious to me that you have been well trained in the Church of Christ. I spent over 40 years in the C of C and over 30 of them preaching. So I'm quite familiar with the response of simply offering Bible verses, glibly assuming that the theology behind them is self-evident. The proclamation of God's "plan of salvation" as a mere "morality play" that God acted out in the cross was my primary response when I first began preaching. But after a few years I found it to be a rather inadequate portrayal of the most pivotal event in human history. Paul's theology was much deeper and more nuanced than that. For example, to refer to humanity as "mostly bystanders" in that event is to trivialize our relationship to God and to each other. Well, that's enough for now. Perhaps we could continue this over the phone or, even better, in person.
Continued in two posts- My telephone number is (I don't know you creeper) if you would like to continue this conversation that way, since we probably can't discuss it over a cup of coffee right now. That would be my favorite option.
The Coup de grace- First, I would like to compliment you on your 30 years amongst our beloved misguided moralistic elder brother saints.You probably have the scars to prove it.
However, you replied my to my argument with condescending sarcasm. Funny, but avoiding answering any of the objections I raised. You replied to my glib assumption that you would see the scripture passages as a bibliography for my argument, with a condescending restatement of your own argument. So you can understand how I'm a little confused as to how continuing this argument has any value.I will glibly leave you with (interpret as you may) John 10: 17-18 "For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again.No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father."
